that the pentagon's got to make a contribution and if there is anything on healthcare, it's gotta be about reforming it, bringing the costs down, not cutting benefits. >> eliot: let's drill down a couple of pieces of this. what do you think the underlying ratio should be between cost cutting and revenue generation. last summer it was 10 to 1 in terms of cutting costs to revenue. thankfully the deal didn't get done. should it be one-to-one? where would you like to see this happen? >> you know, i actually don't know that number because i think the question is i think we need about a trillion and a half from revenues and the revenues have to come, as i mentioned the way president obama was campaigning. and then the pentagon's gotta make a contribution and we've already cut a trillion and a half dollars on domestic discretionary. we'll have to cut more to get a deal. but with the ratio is, i haven't been that close to what the numbers are. >> eliot: one of the issues lurking out there is the debt ceiling and it seems necessary to me to include as part of this grand bargain if one is ever